Posts by Jack C.

79

For the board atheists....

by Jack C. in

jw
friends

this is a personal observation and certainly not representative of all atheists.

i enjoy discussions with folks of this persuasion; in general they appear well read and somewhat more educated than many believers.

as a group most atheists cringe and become insensed when discussing the existence of a deity with believers especially fundamentalists.

I mentioned this you tube presentation earlier in the thread but it is highly pertanent to the subject being discussed. Don't worry this is not some kind of boring fundy religious blather or bible apologist that most of us shudder to think of. I'm not trying to villify the speaker in any way either; it's about the information he presents. As I said earlier, it will radically change your perception of things if you aren't already aware of the info, most people aren't.

Sorry but for some reason I can't get the hyperlink option to work so copy and paste this link to your browser. If it doesn't work for some reason go to youtube and put Jordon maxwell astrotheology in the search box. There are several copies of the same presentation listed, go to the one that has the entire presentation on one video.

Jack

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQBX7Uy6Sjk

79

For the board atheists....

by Jack C. in

jw
friends

this is a personal observation and certainly not representative of all atheists.

i enjoy discussions with folks of this persuasion; in general they appear well read and somewhat more educated than many believers.

as a group most atheists cringe and become insensed when discussing the existence of a deity with believers especially fundamentalists.

Jack C.

For what it's worth:

Atheism counts on the non existence of deity and feeds on the existence of religion.

Religion feeds on the belief in deity and exploits the existence of atheism.

Deism depends, counts and feeds on the existence of deity, debates with atheism while painfully aware of the existence of religion.

The Deity is aware of the existence of deism, atheism and religion but depends on none of them to exist.

All debatable of course

Jack

79

For the board atheists....

by Jack C. in

jw
friends

this is a personal observation and certainly not representative of all atheists.

i enjoy discussions with folks of this persuasion; in general they appear well read and somewhat more educated than many believers.

as a group most atheists cringe and become insensed when discussing the existence of a deity with believers especially fundamentalists.

Jack C.

Entirelypossibe said: "However, what you refer to is time dialation, not time travel. If you refer to being able to skip forwards or backwards in time or change the direction of the arrow of time then no, that has NOT been proven. It always amuses me when fundies try to talk science and get it consistently wrong."

First of all belief in a deity does not equal fundamentalism, duh. Second you are dead wrong in your statement about time dialation/travel. The faster any object travels relative to the earth the faster said object (or person) travels in time. This was postulated by Einstein in the 1920's and proven in the 60's by actual experiment. Your science is wrong. Go back and redo your homework.

Jack

79

For the board atheists....

by Jack C. in

jw
friends

this is a personal observation and certainly not representative of all atheists.

i enjoy discussions with folks of this persuasion; in general they appear well read and somewhat more educated than many believers.

as a group most atheists cringe and become insensed when discussing the existence of a deity with believers especially fundamentalists.

Jack C.

Onethewayout said:"I also wanted to point out that your comment on "openminded" suggests something- that atheists need to consider that the fairytale God of the Bible is real."

This is not what I meant at all. In fact I prefer that any preconcieved personal charactoristics of a universal creator should not be a point of discussion. It would only be relevent to someone who already knew or believed that said creator was real. Why can't debate about a creators existence be centered just around scientific and philosophical reasoning and not preconceived religious and cultural ideas?

Jack

79

For the board atheists....

by Jack C. in

jw
friends

this is a personal observation and certainly not representative of all atheists.

i enjoy discussions with folks of this persuasion; in general they appear well read and somewhat more educated than many believers.

as a group most atheists cringe and become insensed when discussing the existence of a deity with believers especially fundamentalists.

Jack C.

Onthewayout , pink unicorns, flying spaghetti monsters and Odin are all fairytale strawmen. I didn't intend this thread to turn into a discussion about the existence of a creator. Although I believe in such existence and enjoy rational discussion about it, I feel no obligation to prove such existence to anyone. It's up to each person is his or her own way to decide.

79

For the board atheists....

by Jack C. in

jw
friends

this is a personal observation and certainly not representative of all atheists.

i enjoy discussions with folks of this persuasion; in general they appear well read and somewhat more educated than many believers.

as a group most atheists cringe and become insensed when discussing the existence of a deity with believers especially fundamentalists.

Jack C.

Leaving , time dialation (time travel) has been proven. The theory of special relativity predicted it and time dialation must be compensated for every day with global positioning satelites.

As far as the bible is concerned I think that most people, especially fundamentalist christians aren't even aware of what it really means. it's actually one of the most fascinating reads in the world if you understand that it's actually trying to tell the reader a hidden story. the bible, with some exception is a metaphorical story that is repeated over and over in religious texts of nearly all belief systems on the planet. It's the story of the zodiac and the precession of the equinox's. Jesus and his 12 apostles are representations of the 12 signs of the zodiac with it's master, the Sun. This is repeated with the 12 tribes of Israel with Moses as the master as well as Joseph and his 12 brothers This may seem insignificant and trivial but when you undertand what the story is really about it hits you right between the eyes. I'm not trying to be mysterious or holier than thou like I know something very "spiritual", it's just that it takes a little research and patience to discover. Just one of the places to check out is on youtube. Just type in Jordan Maxwell astrotheology. There are many duplications of this presentation so be sure you see the complete 9 part series. Take a chance and about an hour and check it out. This isn't a regurgitation of religious BS; quite the opposite. If you don't already know the story it can be quite shocking. I promise it's worth your time.

Osbrad, I somewhat agree with your assesment, certainly the first group. There are issues even with most respected scientists that there's really no need to argue over. Evolution while it iscertainly a part of scientific fact, has legitimate issues that are far from being resolved. It's like the big bang theory. Many scientists are bailing out of the original concept of the singularity as the mother of everything to an infinite and eternal multiverse, with other universes being the point of origin of our particular universe. This is quite a diversion from the original theory. Even the long held "fact" that the earth wobbles on it's axis, causing the precession of the equinox's is now in question. There is evidence now that the sun and solar system are on a curved path through space creating the same effect as planetary wobble, (due to the sun having a binary twin as do most stars). The ancients seemed to actually be aware of this as well as the possible consiquences. This is actually part of the story told in the bible by means of the zodiac I was mentioning above. Watch the documentary "The Great Year" with James Earl Jones as narrator on you tube. Make sure you see all 5 parts.

79

For the board atheists....

by Jack C. in

jw
friends

this is a personal observation and certainly not representative of all atheists.

i enjoy discussions with folks of this persuasion; in general they appear well read and somewhat more educated than many believers.

as a group most atheists cringe and become insensed when discussing the existence of a deity with believers especially fundamentalists.

Jack C.

This is a personal observation and certainly not representative of all atheists. I enjoy discussions with folks of this persuasion; in general they appear well read and somewhat more educated than many believers. As a group most atheists cringe and become insensed when discussing the existence of a deity with believers especially fundamentalists. I tend to react the same way with the fundies even though I am convinced of the Creators existence. One of the criticisms I have is that many athiests cannot resist using the bible and religion as a strawman. I find this most evident in the comments and literature of R. Dawkins. How much do you, the atheists here on the board base your own personal disbelief on the bible and religion? In your discussions do you prefer using the bible and religion as part or most of your argument or do you prefer debate purely on scientific and philisophical grounds?Are you totaly convinced of your position or are you openminded and occasionally consider that your position could be wrong; possibly even hope you are?

Jack

269

The Hubble, Yahweh, the Bible, and faith.

by Nickolas in

jw
friends

there have been several threads in which the views of the universe provided by the hubble space telescope have been discussed.

i guess this will be another one.

there's a new series being broadcast here in canada on the oasis hd nature channel entitled hubble's canvas.

Jack C.

How would an elephant correctly explain the existence of humans? How can humans explain the unexplainable? The unexplainable does exist and Myth, metaphor and conjectore are the only tools available.

19

The Alpha and Omega-God has no beginning and no end /as opposed to the universe having no beginning and no end ?

by smiddy in

jw
friends

i would like some more enlightened beings than me to thrash this out.. to start the ball rolling with my small intellect.

i was always taught from my jw days that nothing came from nothing,and i accepted that.. all of creation had a start,and reproduced itself according to it`s kind according to genesis.

and of course we now know their are life forms that are a-sexual that reproduce.

Jack C.

It's pretty well established in science that the universe we live in had a beginning. This of course begs the question who or what started it? Up until the last 10 -15 years the physics community would/could not publicly discuss the origin of the singularity or infinite point from which our universe arose. New theories such as Brane Theory and Multiverse are currently attempting to address this issue with some success. The original problem of eternal existence of the universe(s) vs. universe(s) with a beginning and originating from nothing is still in question. An eternaly existing multiverse from which our universe sprang seems to be the current thinking. The same question pops up when God is put into the mix. Did God have an origin or has He/She existed eternaly? If He/She had a beginning, who or what created God? The only sensible answer seems to be either an eternally existing multiverse or an eternally existing Creator. From this point on it becomes a matter of common sense and faith if you believe in a Creator or just an eternal multiverse. A Creator, who has existed eternally is the only reasonable answer for me. To others a Creator isn't necessary.

54

Testing, testing, testing.....Jehovah TESTS?

by Terry in

a classroom teacher has to administer tests.

the teacher doesn't know who is learning and who isn't or how much.. a test pilot flys a new jet to determine what strengths and weaknesses correspond to the design because nobody knows how close.

the manufacture of it came to the ideal.. fire drills are a test: can everybody exit in an orderly fashion in a reasonable amount of time in case there is a fire.. if you think you may be pregant you take a pregnancy test because you won't know for sure otherwise (unless you wait 9 months!).

Jack C.

This is essentially a cut and paste of an answer I gave on the Yahoo questions forum that may apply to this discussion. The question was asked if God was fully involved in our day to day activities. My belief would probably be considered heretical by most Christians but it's what I honestly believe.

One of the principle concepts of Christian theology is that God is all knowing, all present and perfect. Why do we put God in such a neat little box where we expect and demand these absolutes? Does God not deserve a period of discovery and learning? What if God were not all knowing and perfect as we have come to expect? Perhaps all of creation is involved in a learning process along with God Him/Her self. Perhaps all sentient life can simply be described as eyes, ears and feelings for God, almost like our eyes were literal cameras and our ears microphones? Perhaps this is one of the mechanisms by which God observes, listens, accumilates knowledge and rectifies mistakes, albeit over long periods of time, (kind of like, dare I say it, witnesses ) learning through us as we learn; being involved through our intellect, thinking process and emotions. I sometimes think we as believers expect from our Creator that which is unreasonable and selfish. Maybe we need to give God a break instead of expecting and desiring it all for ourselves. Do we ever have concern for Gods feelings or do we feel that in His/Her perfection that lonelyness and a thirst for something new are not an issue for the Creator? I just can't get it my head around the idea that God has always had knowledge of anything and everything, even before it was created. Imagine existing alone throughout eons with no opportunity to learn or feel anything new because you already knew it. It would be a painfull and unfullfilling existance indeed.

It seems reasonable to me that both God and creation are involved together in an eternal learning curve. We as part of that creation share new knowledge and experience with God; He/She all along applying this knowledge to creation as a whole with perfection as a goal. At present the world and perhaps all of creation is a long way from it's intended goal. The world is definately not a pleasant to live for billions of people. Starvation, war and disease are rampant. It can at times be hell on earth even for the fortunate. Most people wouldn't want live eternally under the present conditions including myself. However if my Creator chooses to allow me eternal life in a better place somewhere in the cosmos after 70 or 80 years in this sometimes hellish place, then the pain and suffering of this education will be a bargain indeed.

As far as God testing us, all of life is a test for us as well as God.

Jack